As a means to continue our discussion about whether there are right or wrong actions in the world, we should reflect on a student's statement, "No one would say that cheating is moral."
Can were say, therefore, the all cheating is immoral?
Is there a ground for a value claim that is beyond opinion and carries some "fact of the matter" that can substantiate that to cheat is to be immoral?
Does the context of situation of cheating change the meaning of "cheating is immoral" or are we just changing the word from cheating to some other term?
Please respond to as many of the questions as you like. But make sure to reference one of your classmates comments, starting with the first brave person who post who should refer to the quotation from the student.
Due by Friday's class.
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The student is correct up to a point. Under regular circumstances, cheating is unethical, but it isn't always. Also, it matters what is meant by cheating. Some people might define cheating as wrong, by defining it is an immoral theft of ideas.
ReplyDeleteGoing with the normal definition, it can be ethical to cheat in some situations, since the context matters. Let's say that there is no chance of getting caught cheating on an important final. If the grade on this final will mean the difference between passing and failing, and passing would earn you a wonderful career, it would be fine to cheat. The benefits outweigh the risks.
This is using the 'best reason' justification for doing something. This is because I can't use the 'right thing to do' justification, because I don't know if cheating is right or wrong.
The student should have said instead of that nobody thinks that cheating is moral, that nobody thinks that cheating is ethical. Since morals are universal and don't depend on the person, it wouldn't matter if anybody thought cheating was moral or not. It would simply be one or the other, and no vote would change that.
jbahr's distinction between ethics and morals is important. Morals are universal, whereas ethics are contingent (on time, place, culture etc.) Even if everyone in the world believed something to be right, it is not necessarily moral, but ethical. Therefore, the first student's claim that "no one would say that cheating is moral" is irrelevant, since morality refers directly to what is right or wrong, regardless of what people think.
ReplyDeleteIf the student had said "cheating is not moral," it is still difficult to say whether or not all cheating is immoral because the student did not define cheating. Assuming he meant "to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers," (taken from dictionary.com) it is still difficult to answer because there are some gray areas. If someone drops his/her answer sheet near you and you accidentally see the answer to a question you didn't know, is that "improper" to use his/her answer? If you overhear other students exchanging answers and overhear the answer to a question you didn't know, is it "improper" to use that?
-Chris Felton
hhmm....well cheating is an act of dishonesty or an unfair way to get advantage of someone or something. All cheating is not immoral. Some situations cheating can be considered as wrong, and in other situations, cheating can be used as a gain,power, advantage for you. Others may think cheating is consider as wrong because they know what it is "right", but who really knows what is right or wrong behavior? How do we know cheating is not in conformity with accepted principles of right and wrong behavior? Everyone has their own opinions. You just have to decide whether that choice of cheating is right or wrong, good or bad. ^^like the comment up above, it says that "Since morals are universal and don't depend on the person, it wouldn't matter if anybody thought cheating was moral or not." This comment is trying to express that, cheating can be whatever u think it can be. Morals can be universal. They can be either good or bad behavior. It is just a decision that you must make independently.:DDDDD
ReplyDeleteThe student is correct in the statement that "cheating is immoral." The idea of wrongly taking answers may not seem to be an issue in highschool, where we take multiple tests in many classes throughout the year, but as we grow, it becomes more and more serious as an offence. Using jbahr's example, that the student has no chance of getting caught cheating, and passing will lead to a career. But what if this was an exam for a medical school? If this man were to pass and become a doctor through cheating, the consequences could be drastic. The idea of a surgeon who cheated through medical school operating on humans truly is a frightening image, isn't it? The man who cheated to become the surgeon was simply looking for personal gain of obtaining the job. And as Jess Ahn stated, "cheating can be used as a gain, power, advantage for you." Therefore, this is clearly a definition of cheating.
ReplyDeleteIn this example the cheating medical student shows that cheating is both ethically AND morally wrong. As the students above have shown, the concept of cheating is wrong ethically, but they failed to see it being wrong in the moral sense. The cheating medical student will lead to a surgeon that will LOSE LIVES instead of saving them. And we can all agree that having someone die if they can be saved and be brought back to perfect health is morally wrong. Therefore, the surgeon killing patients that could be saved by surgeons who actually passed in medical school instead of cheating is a morally wrong person.
In conclusion, cheating is morally wrong. It may not seem that way for highschool students who are simply going through their courses trying to not fail, and it may not seem this way when it first occurs, but in the long run cheating will always lead to morally wrong actions.
and to comment on jbahr's statement "Since morals are universal and don't depend on the person, it wouldn't matter if anybody thought cheating was moral or not" i will point out that morals are universal, but you can still be an immoral person in life and choose not to follow them.
-Mike S. ^.^
If one type of cheating is immoral, it all is, as cheating seems to be a broad topic among us, and morals hold true for everyone. There is no ground for the condition of cheating if we consider this immoral. The real question, to me, is if cheating would be considered unethical, as Chris Felton said, because ethics are contingent and vary person to person.
ReplyDeleteI do not thing a certain situation can be thought up that would consider cheating as moral, since morals are, in fact, universal. If they are universal, wouldn't they pertain to everyone, all the time? There is, however, situations where cheating can be considered "ethical" as Dave said earlier. In a less extreme form, a student can glance over at a paper on a test or quiz, but honestly, they are also cheating themselves and that is on them. But the example Mike S called upon really opened eyes because not many people would want a surgeon they know cheated on a test to get them there. They would be considered quacks, and they would most certainly be called immoral. Cheating is most definitely immoral, all the time, universally. But the gray area that Chris referred to really calls upon the different ethics of the people and the situation they happen to be in.
I disagree with jbahr that "Since morals are universal and don't depend on the person, it wouldn't matter if anybody thought cheating was moral or not." Morals are based on one's culture, beliefs, and other factors. This is why there are debates like morals like the question we are answering right now. Some people believe in one moral over another, like cheating. I personally think that cheating is immoral normally, but is okay in some cases (mostly if I'm doing it, although that is rare). One's perspective dictates one's morals, and morals are definitely not universal. I don't think an argument that doesn't draw from values exists to prove whether or not cheating is immoral. There may be simpler debates which could be proven in this way, but cheating is actually quite complex and many opposing examples can be provided. The original student's argument is incredibly weak as I can go out and say right now, I think cheating is moral. However, it may not be possible to universally prove this to be true.
ReplyDeleteThe student's original statement is correct. Cheating is immoral. If you asked anyone on the street if cheating was right, most of them would say no. The consequences for cheating-in school and life in general-are very serious. If it was considered moral those rules and consequences would not be enforced.
ReplyDeleteCheating is universal. No matter where you live, and no matter how you say it, if you asked someone they would say that cheating is not ethical. I agree with Mike S. when he referred to the surgeon scenario. No one would want a surgeon who did not have one clue about what he was doing, and could possibly kill them. If that was a result of cheating who would want it? Cheaters, as celiaf22 said, "are also cheating themselves." Some people in the world do not care about morals and ethics, and they continue to cheat. Those are the people who will use the power gained by cheating to manipulate others. Cheating is neither moral nor ethical, and I agree that the student's statement that "No one would say that cheating is moral," is correct.
Cheating is immoral, regardless of the situation. Essentially cheating is breaking the rules, and doing so is an immoral act that everyone knows. I agree with Julia on that cheating is immoral, however it still can be ethical in certain situations. Say if someone had to cheat in order to win money that would pay their sick mother's hospital bills. Regardless, the cheating would still be immoral universally, but to the person it wouldn't matter.
ReplyDeleteEven though "No one would say that cheating is moral" those that call cheating a different word to make a moral for themselves are still going against the universal law that says cheating is immoral.
Julia's statement makes a lot of sense. When a person cheats, there are serious punishments for that person as a result of them cheating. The greatness of these punishments does depend, though, on how "immoral" the cheating was. Society sets standards for the moral view on cheating. For example, If someone were to cheat and copy someone's homework, their future may consist of a zero on that assignment or maybe, to the largest degree, detention for fifteen minutes after school. If someone were to cheat on their taxes, on the other hand, they could be looking forward to some time spent in prison and even paying the money back.
ReplyDeleteHow do people know how to judge the level of immorality that comes with cheating? Morals are universal to some extent. They are based off of society, for instance, with the example given above, the homework situation was not considered as great of a wrong doing as was the cheating on taxes. This is because the student cheating on his homework just involved his own well being in the class (a small homework grade) and the student that he cheated off of. When one looks at the man cheating on his taxes, though, the result of his cheating and the cheating of others who are doing the same, will alter the circulation of money that is used on schools, roads, and other significant fragments of the community that make it a whole. There are larger stakes that come with this form of cheating, and it is because of these larger stakes, that people view the man cheating off of taxes as being "more immoral" than the student cheating on his homework, therefore, the man deserves a greater punishment.
In response to Mike H. I feel that the moral would not be a moral any more if one could simply break it. Rather "morals" are really just a creation of someone's ethics. Who can really say that something is a moral if so then war, (Death/Murder) would be impossible, and on a lesser scale Cheating. Also fas we talked about in today's class, (3/19/10) love or one moral cannot trump another, the death penalty murder, because then murder is no longer a moral because it is not universal. Whatever your opinion I believe it is impossible for cheating to be ammoral rather it is unethical.
ReplyDelete"Does love trump morality? Is love a moral in itself?"
ReplyDeleteMost people would agree that love is perhaps the strongest human emotion. After all, it is through love that we make ALL of our decisions. For instance, the obvious examples are that love is what makes a parent go to work day after day, giving up part of themselves in order to support their families; love is what makes a person bring their neighbor a pot of chicken soup when they have the flu; love is what makes a teacher teach, a firefighter fight fires, a police officer risk his or her life, etcetera. However, the power and influence of love extends even farther than these obvious situations, even if the love is more subtle. For example, a criminal robs a bank out of love for material possessions and the temptations of wealth; an older brother beats a younger brother out of love for the feeling of domination and power; and, yes, a student cheats in school out of love for the sensation of success and accomplishment.
This is not to say that the actions of the above individuals are always justified. Nonetheless, the presence of love cannot be denied in any situation. While the love may be blinding or misleading (in that sense, I suppose some love has to be considered harmful), it does constitute a type of universal morality, insomuch as that every single person loves someone or something, even if it is only themself. Thus, love absolutely trumps every other moral; it is the only emotion that is undoubtedly present in every situation of life, and it is love that creates the passions individuals need to drive them forward.
The idea of cheating is one that would make many people say that it is morally wrong. It is taking someone else's work and claiming that it is there own answers. By using cheating, you find a way to succed without putting in the work necesarry to reach that goal. However, I disagrew with the statement, " Cheating is Immoral."
ReplyDeleteI disagree with what Julia argues when she says," If you ask people on the street if cheating is immoral, most people will say no." I disagree with this because you will almost certaintly find a person in a differnt circumstance that feels differntly about this. Situations and beliefs get factored into whether cheating is moral or immoral.
There are soceities in the world where cheating is considered by the residents to be morally right. One place like this could be Germany during the Holocaust. During those war torn times, Jews in the ghettos had to live in horrible conditons with little food. Surley, cheating to get a little extra food or cheating to hide from the Nazi soldiers had to be accepted in their soceity. Cheating was not considered immoral there and so you can not consider cheating morally wrong.
In my opinion, cheating at all, be it a small thing or cheating on a final exam, is immoral. Cheating is just another way of admitting you are not capable of doing things yourself; you have to bend the rules, and/or ignore what is expected of you. Cheating also brings out your immaturity.
ReplyDeleteA few commented that cheating can be moral in a way. This depends on how you define cheating. If the type of cheating you are talking about is for your own benefit and no one else, it may be immoral. However, I can understand how in some cases, when it benefits the other person, there can be "moral cheating". The problem with this concept is that cheating is immoral, therefore it can't be moral and immoral at the same time. As Micheal H. said in his ealier post, "the universal law that says cheating is immoral" overides the ways cheating can supposidly be moral.
I agree with Justin in the sense that cheating is situational. It's almost impossible to claim any rule to be univeral because there's almost always an acception. Cheating is one of these rules that cannot be proven universal.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all you must come up with a solid definition of cheating which in itself is hard. Next you must prove that that definition of cheating is not accpetible in any situation, which I find to be impossible. Cheating takes on too many shapes and sizes to be classified as all one thing. For example, in the Holocaust when people needed food because food was rationed, they cheated to get more food. Would you consider that morally wrong? I wouldn't.
This can be true with many situations. Would you say the Jews cheated the Pharoh by using Moses to escape Egypt? Again I woulnd't consider this morally wrong, or wrong on any level. They were unjustly punished so they used special means to leave. This is the situation in many cases.
I don’t believe that all cheating is immoral, if we’re talking about immoral as a universal truth. If cheating was universally unsound then we wouldn’t have so many degrees of punishment, as Dan C. pointed out. I think the fact that we interpret cheating in so many ways just goes to show how it’s a matter of perspective and therefore can’t be measured as a moral. He also said that “morals are universal to some extent” but are also “based off of society.” I tend to have this same thought process, but then realize that the statements are incongruous. Morals can’t really be based off of society, because then we’re in “ethics” territory. So cheating isn’t really immoral, but it is unethical.
ReplyDeleteI agree for the most part with jbahr that under regular circumstances, cheating isnt ethical. But there are many times that cheating may be necasary for survival like dave said. But I believe that cheating is always unethical. I believe that it being necasarry is completely circumstancial. If it means needing to cheat someone out of food to feed your family it could be necasary but not ethical.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to compose one straight answer because every situation is different which will call for different answeres in those varied senarios